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Abortion.. what are your views?


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#291 AGNJoe

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 01:33 PM

View Postill05nino, on 28 October 2010 - 02:34 PM, said:

View PostAGNJoe, on 28 October 2010 - 02:30 PM, said:

Here's my two cents on this...

1)  I'm not touching this debate with a 100-ft pole.


HAHA! I'd be interested to hear your perspective!


Well to me, the first thing is this...it's a woman's choice primarily, but I do believe that the man does has some say because he is part of the equation.  But ultimately, it's the woman's choice.

I also don't believe in abortion, but I understand it, for example if the woman was brutally raped.  Or if the child would be conceived from incest.  Or if the childbirth might possibly kill a woman in conception.  I can't say that I agree with abortion, but I understand that there could be reasons for it.

The main thing for me is that while I don't agree with abortion nor condone it, I feel that bottom line, it's a woman's choice.  If she feels that she wants to have an abortion, it's her right to do that.  I do believe that there might be other alternatives, but again, that particular woman has to live with the choice she makes, for right or wrong.  The thing that concerns me the most is that people having kids and then just giving them up completely to the state to raise.  That's what bothers me the most.

Oh and don't ask me to elaborate or defend my views.  My views are my views.  Right or wrong, they're mine.  I don't want to debate this, but I don't mind chiming my two cents in and that's that.

Edited by AGNJoe, 29 October 2010 - 01:34 PM.

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#292 ill05nino

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 03:07 PM

Haha! No problem man! I enjoy hearing others views, and that's what you did! Thanks, appreciate it!
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#293 bunnysound

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 04:55 PM

Source: Central Illinois Right To Life

source: Center for Bioethical Reform


Look it up. 95% of abortions are people who just go around and have sex with anyone they desire, and use abortion as birth control. If you don't want to listen, or understand, my argument, just look at the FACTS!!!


I'm sure I don't need to point out that your sources are biased, and I'm certain you're aware that biased research is not considered fact. For that matter, even your biased sources don't claim that women "just go around and have sex with anyone they desire." That vicious little gem you tacked on yourself.

I would also like to point out, for the benefit of anyone reading this who is unfamiliar with the Center for Bioethical Reform, that this organization runs a campaign comparing abortion to the Holocaust. They are notorious for their extremist views and ludicrous methods of protest, such as hiring planes to fly banners featuring pictures of aborted fetuses over the Notre Dame campus, and littering that same campus with baby carriages drenched in fake blood, simply because President Obama was due to speak at the graduation ceremony. Here is a selection from a letter written by CBR member George Cunningham in response to a Notre Dame senior who wrote to complain:

Quote

You admit that the “majority” of Notre Dame students voted for Mr. Obama. That means they must not be allowed to graduate in comfort. No one should be allowed to become comfortable with baby killing. Many of your classmates have had abortions and many more will have them in the future. Some of these students, at least those with functioning consciences, could be talked into saving their babies if they were forced to look at what abortion is and does. We know that from our extensive experience with these pictures. These students need truth more than they need comfort. If pro-abortion students are going to revel in the presence of this serial-killer president, they need to squirm in the presence of the babies he is killing. Most abortion supporters want to be able to kill babies and have the evidence swept under the carpet.

So, yeah. That's the source you're using to back up your argument. These are the "facts" you're urging me to seek out. No, thank you.

Edited by bunnysound, 29 October 2010 - 05:09 PM.

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#294 ill05nino

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 06:03 PM

Are you seriously THIS dillusional?! For real? Tell me you're kidding...

The ONLY fact that I took from the Center for Bioethical Reform is the following statement. Before you try throwing out non-sense, read my argument, when you want to grow up, and realize that your opinions are not the only opinions on Earth, then please come back and we can continue this discussion.

Abortion averages:
Worldwide, the lifetime average is about 1 abortion per woman.


And by the way, the source from the Central Illinois Right to Life are based on Nationwide statistics. Based on people from the Left and the Right. I love how you ask for sources, and then you say, "Oh, well those are biased, so lets throw them out". So now if you want to back up YOUR argument, how about you find some statistics and put them up before you spout nonsense, but wait, make sure they are not biased towards Pro-Choicers!
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#295 bunnysound

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 07:12 PM

My point is that you need to know your sources. The one "fact" you quoted from the CBR loses its weight when you do even the slightest bit of research into the CBR, into who these people are and how they are using --and misusing-- information to suit their needs.

I can quote a statistic to you that sounds credible-- I could say, for instance, that according to nationwide polls, 75% of anti-abortion advocates do not care where their statistics come from and I could attribute this quote to a high-sounding organization such as the Philadelphia Bunnysound Coalition-- but when you do a bit of digging and discover that the PBC is an extremist group of pro-choice activists who squirt pro-lifers with water pistols outside City Hall, suddenly my statistic doesn't seem so valid, does it?

Of course bias exists on both sides, which is precisely why I don't go around quoting statistics. I've already pointed out that data on subjects like rape and abortion is nearly impossible to gather accurately due to the personal nature of these things-- many women simply do not want to speak openly to strangers about their most intimate traumas. Research findings on these subjects are interesting to peruse but should never be touted as fact. Even if they seem to support my views, I do not use them. It only serves to weaken an argument.

I asked for your sources precisely because I knew you would cite organizations of dubious credibility. Your statistics sounded overblown to begin with-- use your head, use common sense. Consider how this information could possibly be collected and what problems are inherent in that system. The only source of information on the motives behind a terminated pregnancy would be the testimony of the woman who terminated the pregnancy-- which would require, firstly, her consent, and secondly, her honesty. It would mean, also, that the sample is inherently inaccurate. An accurate sample reflects on the whole, leaving no subgroup out-- and a poll or survey would by its very nature exclude all women who do not feel comfortable speaking to researchers about their experiences with abortion.

You have accused me of making personal attacks, but it seems like you're laying it on pretty heavily yourself. I pointed out an unpleasant truth about the questionable reliability of your source-- a valid move-- and you've accused me of being delusional. Doesn't that seem a bit unnecessary?

[Edit:  Here's a tip for determining the reliability of a source-- check the name of the organization funding the research or publishing the findings!  Simple but effective. For instance, the bias of an organization called the "Central Illinois Right to Life" is "right" there in the name!  :lol: ]

Edited by bunnysound, 29 October 2010 - 07:26 PM.

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#296 bunnysound

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 12:46 AM

What, no one wants to play with me anymore?  :D
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#297 lhanie09

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 07:00 PM

absolutely immoral, unless it is the only way to save the mother's life




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