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Gay Marriage


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#371 runtslover

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 07:49 PM

J is for jer.... that's to crude for this.

J is for joysexual. For those who get off on joy.
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#372 Hawkeye

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 08:27 PM

Ok everyone, this is a debate topic in the Debate Forums!
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#373 bunnysound

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 09:19 PM

Let's debate something, then. This thread has been dead lately. Was it something I said?  :unsure:
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#374 Guest_tonglebeak_*

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 10:43 PM

Separation of church and state =  the government needs to actually keep their **** religious beliefs to themselves. This whole country is ran on religious grounds. How can there truely be a separation of church and state?

#375 runtslover

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Posted 31 October 2010 - 05:51 AM

View Posttonglebeak, on 30 October 2010 - 10:43 PM, said:

Separation of church and state =  the government needs to actually keep their **** religious beliefs to themselves. This whole country is ran on religious grounds. How can there truely be a separation of church and state?

As long as there is religion their won't be because people's religions effect how they treat people and how they think. The only way for it to work and to still have religion would be for every religion to be completely open minded. And well.... that's not going to happen any time soon.
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#376 mef730

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Posted 31 October 2010 - 10:12 PM

View PostZach360, on 28 October 2010 - 09:10 PM, said:

It is a well-known fact that gay marriage isn't legal... Marriage is a commitment between a man and woman. I, in my own religious beliefs, do not believe it should be allowed for them to marry in the same way a man and woman do. They can be together all they want. It was not intended for same-sex couples. Why do you think there are such battles over it? It isn't a right that gay and bisexual couples are going to just be given... it is a spiritual and holy bond between 2 people. It will be a fierce and ugly battle until the end, IMHO. I'm not judging but I do not believe it is right either.

Fortunately, your religious beliefs have as much legal validity as mine do: zero.  There is no legitimate legal reason to ban gay marriage.  I have no problem if your religious institution doesn't want to perform same-sex ceremonies.  But the first amendment couldn't be more clear about the separation of church and state, and the Equal Protection Clause of Fourteen is just as clear.

You can believe whatever you want about the religious consequences of gay marriage.  I just don't understand why you're so quick to squash the rights of others.

Oh, and as for gay marriage not being legal?  Come to Massachusetts.  We'll help you out.

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#377 bunnysound

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:24 AM

View Postmef730, on 31 October 2010 - 10:12 PM, said:

Fortunately, your religious beliefs have as much legal validity as mine do: zero.  There is no legitimate legal reason to ban gay marriage.  I have no problem if your religious institution doesn't want to perform same-sex ceremonies.  But the first amendment couldn't be more clear about the separation of church and state, and the Equal Protection Clause of Fourteen is just as clear.

This. Absolutely.
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#378 TreasureTech

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 07:50 AM

Since you brought it up mef, I do have to educate you on something a bit about the origins of the "Establishment of religion" clause of the 1st Amendment. It was actually geared to protect the church FROM the govt. Never in a million years would they have imagined a society where if you're a follower of a religion you're a "nutjob". That just wasn't what it was about. And if you read the Declaration of Independence, God is very clearly referenced.

It's not that the founding fathers didn't believe in God. It's that they didn't want forced into worshiping a certain way

</rant>
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#379 bunnysound

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 09:11 AM

It's not that if you're a follower of a religion you're a nutjob, it's just that all the nutjobs seem to gravitate toward religion.  :lol:

Personally I don't understand this reverence for our founding fathers. Like most people in positions of power, they were corrupt. I don't think it matters which God they worshiped. Separation of church and state is a sound concept, one that promotes equality. It protects religion from the government and the government from religion, so everyone should be happy. The problem is that we are all so intent on forcing everyone to do what we feel is right. That goes for all of us.
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#380 mef730

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 07:46 AM

View PostTreasureTech, on 01 November 2010 - 07:50 AM, said:

Since you brought it up mef, I do have to educate you on something a bit about the origins of the "Establishment of religion" clause of the 1st Amendment. It was actually geared to protect the church FROM the govt. Never in a million years would they have imagined a society where if you're a follower of a religion you're a "nutjob". That just wasn't what it was about. And if you read the Declaration of Independence, God is very clearly referenced.

It's not that the founding fathers didn't believe in God. It's that they didn't want forced into worshiping a certain way

</rant>

Actually, it was both.  The original text is, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

The founding fathers were clearly concerned about the impact of having a state church, thus the Establishment Clause.  Jefferson and Madison led this charge.  On the other hand, they also wanted to make sure that the state had a compelling interest in any restrictions or religious activities.  Truthfully, we're both making the same point in different ways.  And you're right: most Founding Fathers were deists; they believed in God, but not necessarily a religion.  Typing "Jefferson" and "religion" into google yields some fun results.

As for the nutjobs, no, I don't consider followers of a religion a "nutjob."  I have friends who are extraordinarily religious as well as those who are strict atheists.  Not nutjobs.  

The nutjobs are the ones who misinterpret the Bible and Constitution for their own particular motives, generally not benign.  We've got a few of them running for Congress, come to think of it.  Nutjobs come in all shapes and sizes and represent all kinds of institutions, not just religion.

edited to remove inappropriate comment

Mike

Edited by TreasureTech, 02 November 2010 - 10:13 AM.

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