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Guns on Campus


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#21 JerrySizzler

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 12:35 PM

View PostPlatinumkanikas, on 17 November 2010 - 06:28 PM, said:

I am 100% for it! I go to college and after hearing about all these shootings, I would feel a lot safer if there were a bunch of us walking around with guns. To get licensed, the need to check your background as well as other things so I'm not worried about a licensed owner shooting up a school. I am planning on getting my concealed gun license and would love it if we could have them on campus.

Also, if a gunman knows there are a bunch of random people walking around with a gun, they might think twice about doing it.

The final part of your argument assumes that school shooters / mass murderers are thinking rationally, and I would argue they are not.  People who snap and start shooting random people in public places are not logically weighing the "pros and cons" so the prospect of being shot down is unlikely to deter them.... School shooters don't plan on getting away with it as they almost always end up either shooting themselves or being shot down by law enforcement.

Now don't get me wrong because I do support the right of people to carry a licensed firearm if they feel they need one for protection.  But an armed civilian is far more likely to deter a mugger or rapist than a mass murderer or psychopath who is clearly not concerned about losing their own life.  

Also, while a firearm may be the most effective means of defending one's self for most people I would absolutely not shoot down (no pun intended) other means of defending yourself.    I highly recommend every one take a self- defense / martial arts class if you have the opportunity.  Krav Maga is my personal favorite.  These classes are not only lots of fun and great exercise, but they could very well teach you something that could prevent you from being harmed one day...  

Really it is up to the individual to decide what means of self defense they are most comfortable with, be it a gun, pepper spray, martial arts training or some combination.

Edited by JerrySizzler, 18 December 2010 - 12:38 PM.

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#22 Mira

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 02:46 AM

I attended a private university, and I always thought it strange that you'd get more demerits for having sex on campus than you would for bringing a firearm onto the campus. :blink:

That said, if I was still a student, I'd prefer for guns to be kept off campus. Here's my reasoning:

If you're in an area where you know guns aren't allowed, then if you see someone carrying one, you know that something is wrong and you should probably run and get help.

On the other hand, if guns are allowed and you see someone armed, there's nothing to tell you whether they're carrying it legally or illegally. Your course of action becomes unclear. (Until they do something.)


I haven't researched this on a global scale, so I thought I'd look some info up just for fun. Yeah, I know, I need a life.  :P  Here is a list of countries and the average number of gun related deaths per 100,000 people. I had no idea the USA was so high on the list!  :blink:

Unfortunately, that list doesn't say what gun control laws (if any) each country is using. For that, you'll want to look at this link.
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#23 JerrySizzler

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 05:21 PM

View PostMira, on 28 December 2010 - 02:46 AM, said:

I attended a private university, and I always thought it strange that you'd get more demerits for having sex on campus than you would for bringing a firearm onto the campus. :blink:

That said, if I was still a student, I'd prefer for guns to be kept off campus. Here's my reasoning:

If you're in an area where you know guns aren't allowed, then if you see someone carrying one, you know that something is wrong and you should probably run and get help.

On the other hand, if guns are allowed and you see someone armed, there's nothing to tell you whether they're carrying it legally or illegally. Your course of action becomes unclear. (Until they do something.)


I haven't researched this on a global scale, so I thought I'd look some info up just for fun. Yeah, I know, I need a life.  :P  Here is a list of countries and the average number of gun related deaths per 100,000 people. I had no idea the USA was so high on the list!  :blink:

Unfortunately, that list doesn't say what gun control laws (if any) each country is using. For that, you'll want to look at this link.

You raise some interesting points.   But one problem is, if you want to ban guns on campus you have to figure out how to enforce it-  for instance, do you  post metal detectors and security guards at every entrance?  It would create a huge inconvenience for every one and make it take a lot longer for all students and faculty to get where they need to go.  This might even be feasible at very small schools with one or two main buildings but at large universities with many different buildings, entrances, dorms etc. the financial cost and crowding would be tremendous.  Obviously if someone wants to sneak a gun into a building they aren't going to wave it around (they'll conceal it) so guards would have to search everyone who sets off a metal detector.  Also, if they give the guards permission to search anyone who "looks suspicious" it will no doubt lead to racial profiling and abuse of power.  

The United States has one of the highest rates of gun related deaths in the world... But I don't think this is simply because our country has weaker gun laws than other industrialized nations... Canada has high gun ownership yet their violent crime rate is much lower.  Why?   More social safety nets / better quality of life for the average citizen.  Our country has much higher rates of poverty than other industrialized nations, and there is a very strong correlation between poverty and violent crime... That is, poor people are far more likely to resort to crime to make money since they have less opportunities, less social assistance, and living in poor areas leads to a more violent upbringing.  

A lot of opponents of gun control laws absolutely hate the movie "Bowling for Columbine" because they think its a pro gun control movie, but most of it has nothing to do with gun control.  Most of the film is actually implying that the main differences between the US and other developed nations like Canada, UK, etc. is that those countries take better care of their people... with universal health care, affordable / subsidized housing, higher minimum wages, lower cost of living, etc.  If most of your citizens are basically comfortable. content, and well taken care of they are far less likely to resort to violence.

Edited by JerrySizzler, 28 December 2010 - 05:27 PM.

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#24 Mira

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 07:05 PM

Quote

You raise some interesting points. But one problem is, if you want to ban guns on campus you have to figure out how to enforce it- for instance, do you post metal detectors and security guards at every entrance? It would create a huge inconvenience for every one and make it take a lot longer for all students and faculty to get where they need to go. This might even be feasible at very small schools with one or two main buildings but at large universities with many different buildings, entrances, dorms etc. the financial cost and crowding would be tremendous. Obviously if someone wants to sneak a gun into a building they aren't going to wave it around (they'll conceal it) so guards would have to search everyone who sets off a metal detector. Also, if they give the guards permission to search anyone who "looks suspicious" it will no doubt lead to racial profiling and abuse of power.


I'll admit that my campus was small, so it wasn't a huge deal. Everyone knew that you couldn't bring firearms onto the campus, and that was it.

But I don't think enforcing need be as complicated as you suggest. Instead of relying solely on guards and metal detectors to check every student, I think we should teach the students what to look for and what to do if they see a gun on campus.

Every college has an orientation program for new students already set up. It shouldn't take much time to remind students that firearms are not allowed. (And possibly add a punishment for not reporting a firearm too. If someone knows they'll get in trouble for NOT reporting something, they're more likely to speak up.) By teaching the students what to do, you'll expand the "security" force by thousands.
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#25 Punkyc7

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 08:54 PM

Why would we want the government stepping in to almost every part of our life jerry?
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#26 JerrySizzler

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 05:10 PM

View PostMira, on 29 December 2010 - 07:05 PM, said:

Quote

You raise some interesting points. But one problem is, if you want to ban guns on campus you have to figure out how to enforce it- for instance, do you post metal detectors and security guards at every entrance? It would create a huge inconvenience for every one and make it take a lot longer for all students and faculty to get where they need to go. This might even be feasible at very small schools with one or two main buildings but at large universities with many different buildings, entrances, dorms etc. the financial cost and crowding would be tremendous. Obviously if someone wants to sneak a gun into a building they aren't going to wave it around (they'll conceal it) so guards would have to search everyone who sets off a metal detector. Also, if they give the guards permission to search anyone who "looks suspicious" it will no doubt lead to racial profiling and abuse of power.


I'll admit that my campus was small, so it wasn't a huge deal. Everyone knew that you couldn't bring firearms onto the campus, and that was it.

But I don't think enforcing need be as complicated as you suggest. Instead of relying solely on guards and metal detectors to check every student, I think we should teach the students what to look for and what to do if they see a gun on campus.

Every college has an orientation program for new students already set up. It shouldn't take much time to remind students that firearms are not allowed. (And possibly add a punishment for not reporting a firearm too. If someone knows they'll get in trouble for NOT reporting something, they're more likely to speak up.) By teaching the students what to do, you'll expand the "security" force by thousands.

I certainly don't think it would be fair to actually punish bystanders for failing to report someone.... There is too much a possibility of ambiguity.  Like I said if someone wants to sneak in a gun they aren't going to wave it around.    This kind of rule would create an atmosphere of paranoia.  IF you ask every one to report any suspicious activity you would inevitably lead to discrimination and racial profiling.   Also, it still doesn't solve the problem I mentioned; how would you enforce this rule?   If someone failed to report a firearm, how would you prove that they even saw it?   Suppose I don't like someone and want to ruin their life.  All I have to do is plant a firearm in their bag and report them for it.

View PostPunkyc7, on 29 December 2010 - 08:54 PM, said:

Why would we want the government stepping in to almost every part of our life jerry?

We wouldn't... Where did I say that I wanted that?   You mean because I support single-payer healthcare system and a higher minimum wage?  That's hardly "every part of our life".

Edited by JerrySizzler, 30 December 2010 - 05:11 PM.

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#27 Riyko

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 01:22 PM

Just a quick note, in Texas they passed a law that allows people to carry guns on school campuses if they have a permit for it.

I'm not sure how I feel about this, I mean I understand why people carry guns with a permit and i understand why they would want them on a college campus, but at the same time i think knowing that one of my classmates has a gun on them would make me uncomfortable. At my college at least there were parts of the school that were on school property, but far away from the main part, so if that person just happened to want to use the gun out of anger or something no one would be able to stop him before it was too late. Then not only guns are weapons you can use other things too so in the end i would prefer someone to have a gun if they have it legally than have one illegally.

Honestly even with security or police on campus it doesn't mean it's safer, at the college i went too the police station was just down the street from the college and the security office was right there, but a girl was still raped right in front of the residence building next to the security office safe no because it still happened. With other means of protection, i walk around with my pocket knife at all times (it's not a small knife) for protection, i've had to use it once and it worked.
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#28 IcemanUnlimited

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Posted 28 February 2011 - 05:23 PM

View PostRiyko, on 26 February 2011 - 01:22 PM, said:

Just a quick note, in Texas they passed a law that allows people to carry guns on school campuses if they have a permit for it.

I'm not sure how I feel about this, I mean I understand why people carry guns with a permit and i understand why they would want them on a college campus, but at the same time i think knowing that one of my classmates has a gun on them would make me uncomfortable. At my college at least there were parts of the school that were on school property, but far away from the main part, so if that person just happened to want to use the gun out of anger or something no one would be able to stop him before it was too late. Then not only guns are weapons you can use other things too so in the end i would prefer someone to have a gun if they have it legally than have one illegally.

Honestly even with security or police on campus it doesn't mean it's safer, at the college i went too the police station was just down the street from the college and the security office was right there, but a girl was still raped right in front of the residence building next to the security office safe no because it still happened. With other means of protection, i walk around with my pocket knife at all times (it's not a small knife) for protection, i've had to use it once and it worked.


I doubt it could've happened if she was carrying a gun on her. I'm all for carrying a gun on campus legally. Then again, I'm a total gun junkie. ;P

#29 TreasureTech

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 11:34 AM

"If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns"

Now some of you will say "we aren't talking about outlawing guns, just banning them on campus"

So what? So that guy who is already messed up in the head comes on campus not caring about the law and starts shooting people. Maybe he gets 30 or 40 people before the Police put him down.

On the other hand, lets say a campus allows guns as long as you have a permit.

Bad guy comes on campus. Bad guy starts shooting. Bad guy gets one or two people.

Someone like me puts him down.

The end. :)
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#30 IcemanUnlimited

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 11:32 AM

View PostTreasureTech, on 01 July 2011 - 11:34 AM, said:

"If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns"

Now some of you will say "we aren't talking about outlawing guns, just banning them on campus"

So what? So that guy who is already messed up in the head comes on campus not caring about the law and starts shooting people. Maybe he gets 30 or 40 people before the Police put him down.

On the other hand, lets say a campus allows guns as long as you have a permit.

Bad guy comes on campus. Bad guy starts shooting. Bad guy gets one or two people.

Someone like me puts him down.

The end. :)


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