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#11 mattre98

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 05:14 PM

To list the research here of the holes punched in the Darwin theories would take up pages upon pages. The best area to look is goto the science journals (professional edition) and as well some of the latest educational journals, some are posted on line that face the issues with the Board of Education. Intelligent Design is a proposed idea of trying to maintain the seperation of Church and State, but yet placing the idea that overall there had to be an intelligent designer somewhere in the equation of creation. I do not support this idea, for the reason being it is a compromise of just saying straight out there must be a God. By placing within the education system (ID) is based off there are so many areas where man cannot explain creation. This is just one area that has brought up question, but did you know that the darwin theory never explains how life can be "finite" By the model produced by scientist there is no explanation of why the body eventually dies, based off the constant renewl of cell the body should never die, but yet as we know life is "finite" This is a small topic, but one of the many that are out there, the longer and more indebt are based off the creation itself.


In regards to G. Washington and Jesus, I can say I have not been alive during the life of G. Washington or Jesus, the only details we have is what we read in books from a logical stand point. This is the point driving home in regards to the existence. There is more documentation outside the Bible that exist on the life of Jesus then there is of G. Washington. There is no difference when one looks from this perspective.
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#12 leah_laf

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 06:45 PM

Just to add, Separation of church and state occurred when the Puritans were using their religion to punish citizens of the New World (witch trials). Our founders did not want a repeat of the Church of England, Inquisition, etc. I can't remember my history, too tired to pull it up at the moment, but it was a combination of all the "history", they instituted the Separation. It was all about the forcing of another's religious beliefs and punishing those unbelivers in society.

When certain organizations freak over Separation of Church and State, I have to laugh, because if they really read all the books and articles available to said organization, they'd see why it started, and how irrelevant it is in "little" things, like Christmas trees and Christmas cards.

Jesus was raised Jewish, was Jewish, and stated He was the promised Messiah from the Jewish beliefs.

Hope this helps a little. I'm Roman Catholic.
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#13 TreasureTech

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 07:42 PM

Separation of Church and state as "modernly defined" COMPLETELY ignores what it's about. Number 1 is that it only states no law can establish an official religion. Number 2 is that it was meant to protect the right to worship any way you choose. Not the "right to not allow people to worship as they choose" VERY Big difference.

I am not offended when someone practices their religion, however they may choose to do or not do so. What DOES offend me is people who say that I don't have the right to pray in school. That "Under God" should be removed from the pledge because 5% of the country doesn't like it. If you don't like it...don't say it. That simple
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#14 mattre98

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 08:24 PM

Treasure Tech, I totally agree with you, and as well believe it is at the center of why we have drifted so far away. Christ talked about coming to him as children, but us adults have blocked the children from coming to Christ by removing God from our schools.
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#15 DTarockoff

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 11:29 PM

View Postleah_laf, on 08 August 2010 - 06:45 PM, said:

Just to add, Separation of church and state occurred when the Puritans were using their religion to punish citizens of the New World (witch trials). Our founders did not want a repeat of the Church of England, Inquisition, etc. I can't remember my history, too tired to pull it up at the moment, but it was a combination of all the "history", they instituted the Separation. It was all about the forcing of another's religious beliefs and punishing those unbelivers in society.

When certain organizations freak over Separation of Church and State, I have to laugh, because if they really read all the books and articles available to said organization, they'd see why it started, and how irrelevant it is in "little" things, like Christmas trees and Christmas cards.

Jesus was raised Jewish, was Jewish, and stated He was the promised Messiah from the Jewish beliefs.

Hope this helps a little. I'm Roman Catholic.

If Jesus was Jewish as you say, and Jesus is the perfect sinless savior that Christians claim him to be, why would Christians not want to be Jewish so they could be exactly like Jesus himself?
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#16 Guest_tonglebeak_*

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 12:15 AM

I have no religious beliefs. Logically, God can't exist, because something would've had to create that entity. However, the flaw is that what created the entity that created the entity known as god...etc.

That leads to the possibility that logic, as we know it, cannot be upheld in certain realms/dimensions/planes/whatever you want to call them.

While there's no hard evidence (and the Bible is not evidence, as man wrote it, and I don't care if they claimed "God" told them to write it or not) that "God" exists, there also is no evidence to say that "God" doesn't exist. Therefore, I'm open to the possibilities until one of them can be proved/disproved.

Note that it would be be a terrible idea for people to dismiss the religions of others. Respect their religion, and they'll respect yours (this goes for no religious beliefs as well). Although there are always jerks out of the bunches who try to ruin things.

#17 Treasure

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 08:22 AM

I would argue that it takes just as much (if not more) faith to believe that a big bang randomly threw the universe together.  Something had to exist in the beginning of time.  Where did the matter come from that created the universe during the "Big Bang?"  Did it just always exist?  How likely is that?  The most intelligent minds on Earth could not create a living organism from rocks and debris... and there is 0% chance that it could happen randomly.

Either someone created us, or we randomly came to be.  For me, it is actually easier to believe the first option.

#18 DTarockoff

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 12:17 PM

View Posttonglebeak, on 09 August 2010 - 12:15 AM, said:

I have no religious beliefs. Logically, God can't exist, because something would've had to create that entity. However, the flaw is that what created the entity that created the entity known as god...etc.

That leads to the possibility that logic, as we know it, cannot be upheld in certain realms/dimensions/planes/whatever you want to call them.

While there's no hard evidence (and the Bible is not evidence, as man wrote it, and I don't care if they claimed "God" told them to write it or not) that "God" exists, there also is no evidence to say that "God" doesn't exist. Therefore, I'm open to the possibilities until one of them can be proved/disproved.

Note that it would be be a terrible idea for people to dismiss the religions of others. Respect their religion, and they'll respect yours (this goes for no religious beliefs as well). Although there are always jerks out of the bunches who try to ruin things.

Nicely said...the only problem with "respecting other religions" as you said is the people who think they're not jerks and are so convinced that they're right that they think they're "saving" others by trying to convert them. Either way though I do agree it is a tricky situation to debate because there is no 100% SOLID proof on either side of the situation.
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#19 teflonfanatic

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 12:53 PM

View PostTreasure, on 09 August 2010 - 08:22 AM, said:

I would argue that it takes just as much (if not more) faith to believe that a big bang randomly threw the universe together.  Something had to exist in the beginning of time.  Where did the matter come from that created the universe during the "Big Bang?"  Did it just always exist?  How likely is that?  The most intelligent minds on Earth could not create a living organism from rocks and debris... and there is 0% chance that it could happen randomly.

Either someone created us, or we randomly came to be.  For me, it is actually easier to believe the first option.

Totallt agree, I have plenty of NON creationism sources from my own religion on this subject but for now, DTarockoff purposed an interesting question, if Jesus was Jewish how come people who follow him are not Jewish today? The answer is easy everyone who is following Christ is Jewish spiritually and here's the scriptures to prove it, (Romans 2:25-29)(Galatians 3:26-29), from God's standpoint you don't need to be born a Jew to be a Jew 0_0, yet we call ourselves christians because Jesus was the perfect model for us to follow his father's law and that's why he's called the faithful and true witness(1 Peter 2:21)(Revelation 3:14)

P.S. Can someone explain these scriptures to me if Jesus is God-incarnate(1 Kings 18:27)(Romans 1:22-23)(John 17:3)

Edited by teflonfanatic, 09 August 2010 - 12:54 PM.

The same thing occurred in the "New Testament," or Christian Greek Scriptures. Professor George Howard goes on to say: "When the Hebrew form for the divine name was eliminated in favor of Greek substitutes in the Septuagint, it was eliminated also from the New Testament quotations of the Septuagint.


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#20 DTarockoff

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 01:54 PM

@teflonfanatic: If you don't believe in Christ and live a "sinful" life (without repenting) by your religion's terms, do you believe you go to hell?
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